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Mark Berry

Frog assignments and marking. Have I missed something?

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The thing I've found most valuable about Frog3 is the task setting/marking.  Over 7 years this has totally changed the way I work. All my marking is now done on Frog.

We are now moving to Frog Learn. It looks so much better, and has the lovely mark book.

Yet I can’t get my head around the workflow.

I set a task, with a deadline in say a week, longer if it is a major piece of work.  Many students submit early.  I mark their work promptly. They get to see my comment but NOT my mark. Why not? On the old platform these early submitters, dissatisfied with their mark and/or taking on board my comment, often messaged asking for a chance to resubmit. Great learning.

Even more bizarre: task closing. Once a task closes you can’t mark it!  Surely closing a task should stop students submitting, but not teachers from marking.  This is a fundamental error. Ok, I can get around this by NOT closing the task but then what was the point in the task having an auto-close date at all?  I can’t see the ‘window’ in which teachers are supposed to mark!

Sometimes work submitted is inadequate and I return it, with a comment and a demand to re-do.  But once the task is closed there is no opportunity for students to resubmit.  I have to re-open the task for all. On the old platform I could close a task (‘force handin’) then return work to individuals as required.  I can’t see how to do that now.

It is quite possible that these annoyances are because there is something I’ve failed to appreciate. If so, please enlighten me!

Edited by Mark Berry
correction

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2 minutes ago, MarkB said:

Hi Graham,

Thank you for your rapid response.

I think that you are telling me that the behaviour I’m finding frustrating is as designed, so I doubt that a support session is going to help me.

Do you agree that there is an anomaly in students being able to read a comment on marked work but not see their mark?  Surely they should see both or neither.

It would be much better if ‘release marks and comments’ was a totally separate operation from ‘close task’. Then teachers could choose to release when it suits them, and leave the task open too if they so choose.

Auto-close isn’t really the issue.  Surely it is bizarre that stopping hand-ins (manually or automatically) removes the ability to mark what has been submitted? What was the design thinking behind that?

Hi Mark,

There are a few things I'm keen to change on the assignments system and do try to keep the pressure on the Product and Development Teams.  More voices from our schools certainly help with this.

@Matt keeps an eye on the forums and works directly with the Product Manager.  I know he is keen to hear your ideas too.

While I'd agree that being able to send comments back to students while not releasing marks could be used to "mark" the students work, I'll point out that the comments wall has other purposes too (e.g. students struggling with work, needing to ask questions etc...) - so it's more an avenue for communicating with students rather than a marking tool.  Having said that, I agree that not being able to release marks without closing the whole assignment and the earlier point you mentioned about not being able to send work back to a student unless you reopened work and will raise these point internally.

Quote

Surely it is bizarre that stopping hand-ins (manually or automatically) removes the ability to mark what has been submitted? What was the design thinking behind that?

This feature has been part of the Assignment system since the launch of FrogLearn - so I can't speak to the original thinking.  It's not been something a lot of people have raised with me - doesn't mean it's not a valid idea, just that we haven't had requests to change it. 

Closing an assignment takes it off everyone's to-do list.  A student can still contact you and request a chance to hand-in after closing - and yes, that does involve re-opening, waiting for the hand-in, and then closing, but the mechanism is there.   You wouldn't want to be in a position where the homework was closed, it was moved to the closed tab and weeks later a student hand-ins work and you're not aware they have,

Like i say, I'll raise these issues internally and let you know our thinking.

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Hi Mark,

In order for students to see your marks, you do have to release the marks to the whole class.  The FrogLearn assignment system was built this way to prevent students handing-in work early, getting it marked then sharing their work with their classmates.  That is the thinking behind the current system.  You can return an assignment to individual students along with your comments via the wall.   This "un-hands-in" the homework for that student.  They do not get to see the mark, but they do see your comments and have the chance to re-submit.

Regarding Auto-close, this feature was created due to requests from schools who do not record hand-ins or wish to mark online.  Auto-close effectively hides the homework from the students' to-do list.  There is a setting within System Preferences to set auto-close to off by default for the school and you can then ignore the toggle switch.

If you'd like a further discussion, I'd be happy to contact you and arrange a remote session.   I'm guessing from your detailed question you have already seen the Homework guides:

https://www.frogeducation.com/community/training/homework

 

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Hi Graham,

Thank you for your rapid response.

I think that you are telling me that the behaviour I’m finding frustrating is as designed, so I doubt that a support session is going to help me.

Do you agree that there is an anomaly in students being able to read a comment on marked work but not see their mark?  Surely they should see both or neither.

It would be much better if ‘release marks and comments’ was a totally separate operation from ‘close task’. Then teachers could choose to release when it suits them, and leave the task open too if they so choose.

Auto-close isn’t really the issue.  Surely it is bizarre that stopping hand-ins (manually or automatically) removes the ability to mark what has been submitted? What was the design thinking behind that?

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